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Oklahoma State gave up 648 yards of offense, lost a defensive star to injury, struggled to run the ball with any efficiency and still managed to beat Arkansas in double overtime last weekend. 

What did that game tell us about the Cowboys? 

Where are the biggest concerns?

And more importantly, are there fixes?

We'll talk about that and more with Tulsa World columnist Berry Tramel next on The Jenni Carlson show. 

Sign up for my YouTube channel here: YouTube.com/@Jenni-Carlson.

Episode highlights

1:18: Why, exactly, did OSU and Arkansas wait 44 years to play each other?

2:15: Mike Gundy said OSU can’t keep letting teams get big leads, but hey, it seems to be working out for the Cowboys.

3:14: The impacts of losing defensive stalwart Collin Oliver to injury. (Bonus: we try to pronounce Obi Ezeigbo’s last name!)

6:50: How concerning is the Cowboy secondary’s play?

10:09: Is OSU going to be able to effectively run the football?

12:20: This is not a drill: the Cowboys threw to the tight ends!

14:05: The state of the Big 12. (Spoiler: the parity hasn’t gone down.)

16:22: Predictions for OSU at Tulsa!

Producer: Jacquelyn Musgrove

Creative Director: Michael Lane

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Transcript

Jenni: First off, what a game we got to see Saturday in Stillwater. My goodness.

Berry: Yeah. Probably a good idea that these teams only play every 44 years, for crying out loud. We wouldn't want a game like that to be displayed on Oklahoma gridirons, now would we? 

Yeah. What a game. My goodness. It was like going to an amusement park or something. There's just too much going on. Can't even keep up with all the stuff going on. Some games you go to gets boring — I won't name names — but you know, nothing's going on. You say, ‘Where's the entertainment value?’ 

You know, we don't ever talk about this, but we should have. One thing Mike Gundy said, he says it about twice a year and he's right, he said, ‘When you come to an Oklahoma State football game, you get entertained,’ and you know what? You do get it. That was entertainment at the highest level Saturday at Boone Pickens.

Jenni: Well, you know, he said after the game, ‘We can't keep letting teams get these leads’ and blah, blah, blah. In their last six games, I think they've won three of them with 14-point comebacks, at least 14-point comebacks. What do you mean you can't do it anymore? You do it all the time.

Berry: You've perfected it, is how you do it. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what you think, Jacko. Here's what I said. Or maybe I said this to you on the way home from the game. Arkansas probably has the better players. I think OSU has the better team. Cowboys didn't wilt when they got down

Jenni: They didn't. 

Berry: They didn't crater. They just kept working and stuck to it and made game plan changes and sort of were just good soldiers. And in the end, they won. So Arkansas looked like a team that, you know, had all kinds of potential but really didn't know how to win. Oklahoma State looked like a team that had limitations but knew how to win.

Jenni: And one of those limitations came out during the game as Collin Oliver was injured, and we find out after the game, he's likely done for a very extended period. His dad has posted on social media, it's a Jones fracture. That's one of those foot injuries we know a lot about around here because the Thunder had a spate of Jones injuries. So not good for Collin Oliver. 

What's the impact of that loss from your perspective, Berry? Obviously it's disappointing. Anytime a good, solid player and a good, solid individual like Collin Oliver's hurt, it's painful to see. But what's the impact of this?

Berry: Well, the alarm is this: OSU, to whatever level of defensive potential they have, which maybe it's high, maybe it's not, let somebody else decide that for now, but this team is not full of difference makers on defense. I don't think. And Oliver ranks at the top of the list of the people who are. And to lose him, a guy threatening the career sack record. Leslie O’Neal was in town. Still holds the OSU sack record and probably going to stand forever now that Collin Oliver's hurt. 

When you lose a guy like that, whatever that potential for the defense, it comes down a little bit. Now, OSU’s got some options. Obi … we went with over this on the drive home Monday.

Jenni: We got the spelling, but not the pronunciation. 

Berry: I don't know that we did the pronunciation. I wasn't thinking of video. I’m gonna call him Obi. What's his name now? 

Jenni: I think it's ee-ZIG-boe. (Note: I was close: ee-ZEEG-boe.)

Berry: Obi Ezeigbo played pretty well for a guy thrust into the spotlight? Gundy sort of indicated that Kendal Daniels is gonna move closer to the line of scrimmage, take a lot of those duties and frankly looks the part and maybe he started playing the part. Gundy was really high on Ken Kendal Daniels and some of the plays he made, including the games-winning tackle, game-saving tackle or game-ending. You know, fourth down in double overtime. And Gundy, over the years, correct me if I'm wrong, he’s not been real quick to jump on the Kendal Daniels bandwagon. A little bit of tough love going on there, I think, but he was very high on Kendal Daniels (Monday), so if Kendal Daniels can be a reasonable facsimile of Collin Oliver, then everything looks a little bit better for that OSU defense.

Jenni: Yeah, you've got in Obi, a Division II transfer from Gannon, a guy that's still, you would assume, figuring out how he fits, where he fits. But he played fairly well. I mean, let's remember that was an SEC offense with SEC, especially, offensive linemen and running backs that he was having to contend with. So I was impressed. 

But I think you're right, Berry. Gundy said Daniels is likely the replacement in the walk-off (interview) we had with him. I asked if the move to linebacker could be full time (for Daniels), and he indicated he thought that was possible. So I think that is the move. And if Obi Ezeigbo then becomes a backup or a guy that's in there for half the snaps or whatever the number is, you like his chances where he doesn't have to play every snap of the game. 

As I think about the defense, though, Berry, I’ve got to admit while it is concerning to lose Collin Oliver, no doubt about it, that secondary to me continues to be the thing that is a little worrying. They've got guys back there with experience, guys that you think are gonna be able to handle things. And in a moment of great brevity in the press conference on Monday, Mike Gundy basically saying to any suggestion that it was all about Arkansas getting receivers open, ‘No, no,’ he said, ‘it was our fault, we let them go.’ So that secondary, Berry, is a bit of a concern to me

Berry: I come not to praise the OSU secondary, but neither will I come to bury them. A couple of points. One is when Gundy did talk about, you know, they were running wide open, but much less so in the second half. And Gundy sort of said, ‘We had them screwed up. We had them in the wrong game plan, offense and defense. We had to fix some things.’ And a lot of those wide open receivers went away in the second half.

Also in the first half, I wrote down at least three what I considered just unbelievable catches by those Arkansas guys. Guys jumping up, ever how high in the air, making acrobatic catches that, frankly, we're used to seeing from OSU's best receivers, whether it's Rashaun Woods or Justin Blackmon or James Washington or somebody. So Arkansas had elite talent, I think, with the guys handling the ball. So I'm going to cut (the OSU secondary) a little bit of slack there. 

The OSU defense is still a work in progress. It's not a Leslie O’Neal defense. No doubt about it. I don't think Leslie O’Neal could play for this OSU defense, but mainly because he's like 55 years old. He might have to play second team, come in on third down, pass rush. But they don't have any Leslie O’Neals, but I don't think it's a lost cause with this OSU defense. They do have some playmakers. You know, Kale Smith. Did I get that right? 

Jenni: With interception? Yeah.

Berry: The interception. They got too many Smiths. Let's see. Dylan Smith. Kale Smith.

Jenni: Cam Smith.

Berry: Cam Smith. Cam Epps. So, yeah, I mean, just in the secondary, they got guys. It's like the United Nations running around. Can't figure out who's who. But (the interception) that's a big-time play. Reminded me of Jason Taylor's interception at Texas a few years ago. Texas dominating the game down there. And it looks like they hadn't spurred away and scored, but you just felt, ‘This is not going well. OSU can't do anything.” Texas had a lead there down there about the score. And they throw a pass, Jason Taylor pick-six, 80 something yards. Game completely turned. OSU wins. 

The game didn't completely turn after (Kale) Smith's interception return. But I did think it gave OSU a life preserver. And they said, ‘You know what? Let's just settle down and maybe hang around and see what happens.’ And what happened is at the end of the game, they had more points.

Jenni: It was definitely a shot in the arm at a time that they weren't doing much offensively and frankly, we're struggling defensively as well. So big play. Obviously a lot of talk about defense. You give up 648 yards. We're going to have to talk some defense.

But can we talk about the offense? Is there going to come a time when the Cowboys decide to actually run the football effectively? Is that going to happen anytime soon?

Berry: I don't know. I don't know that it's a decision. We saw the remnants of this at the last of last season when Ollie Gordon turned into a superstar and the other coaches who, you know, apparently other universities pay their coaches as well. 

Jenni: They scout, too?

Berry: They thought, ‘Hey, why don't we try to win this game? Let's put seven guys in the box and not let Ollie Gordon run wild.’ Saw it at UCF, and we saw it down the stretch, and it's just going to be tougher and tougher for Ollie Gordon to run. So Kasey Dunn, Mike Gundy, the whole crew, they're going to have to adjust. They're going have to do different things. And they sort of did in that second half. Gundy kept saying it, you know, ‘Get to the passing game, get to the passing game.’ They started launching those balls, and you know, Alan Bowman is not Mason Rudolph and he's not Brandon Weeden, but he's been a pretty effective thrower through these two games. And they've got some guys that can make some plays. Brennan Presley foremost among them and De’Zhaun Stribling, especially when he's not sick like he was Saturday.

They made enough plays that the offense got going and then they found a way to get Ollie the ball, which I thought was great. Throwing him the football. Marshall Faulk, Edgerrin James, all kinds of great NFL tailbacks made their money catching it as much as taking it on a handoff. Also a couple of pitch outs, old fashioned. You're way too young to remember the quick pitch and the direct pitch to tailbacks. But that used to be a staple of the I-formation offense. So, I think maybe get Ollie out on the perimeter and see what happens. Get him out of the cluster in the middle. So we saw a few flakes of promise out of the run game, or at least the break free Ollie Gordon.

Thanks to Visit Stillwater for sponsoring my OSU football coverage this season.

Jenni: As excited as you might be about pitchouts, I was equally excited about throwing to the tight end, Berry. They threw to the tight end on Saturday. Everybody up.

Berry: How about the freshmen, Ford from Stillwater High School? 

Jenni: Josh Ford.

Berry: Gundy's been talking him up, saying he’s a big deal. They are really proud of their Pioneers in Stillwater and they should be. They've won a state title. They knocked off Tulsa Union on Friday night. Let me promise you the biggest win in Payne County over the weekend was not the Cowboys taking down Arkansas. Stillwater beating Union is like if OSU had taken down Alabama. So, the Pioneers aren't winning those games with a bunch of 140-pounders who's just have a lot of fight. I they got a bunch of good ballplayers and here's Ford, a freshman tight end, making big plays in the clutch down the stretch against an SEC team. So I thought that was a very good sign.

You've been saying in my ear for, don't know, 15 years, ‘Throw to the tight end,’ and they finally started doing it Saturday and it worked out well.

Jenni: They're always open. Apparently, I share something in common with Mike Gundy's son Gage and his father, Ray, who apparently have been telling him throw to the tight end. He finally listened.

Berry: You know, we make a lot of jokes about Gundy and how goofy he is and crazy and just saying whatever he wants. But you know, to have some of the people that's in his ear as much as they are, he’s probably one of the saner ones among us to hear all the stuff he's got to listen to all the time. He's probably doing a pretty good job at keeping it level.

Jenni: You know, as we talk about all that that OSU is going to have to address moving forward, it's worth remembering, Berry, that they're about to enter into Big 12 play. They've got Tulsa. We'll talk about Tulsa in just a second before we get out of here. But they're about to enter into Big 12 play in a league that we suspected would have a lot of parity. And now it looks even more wide open. Mike Gundy talked a little bit about that on Monday. But man, this league looks like it's everybody in the pool to figure out who wins this thing.

Berry: I literally have no idea who might emerge from the Big 12. I will say this: I think one team has been eliminated from me thinking they can win it. If I made a list of just teams that potentially could win it, not saying they will, not saying they have a good chance, but they at least have a shot, I think you could go 10 deep.

And I think we've eliminated two already, and that's Tech and Colorado. Colorado, they can't do anything. And Tech has just been terrible over time. Overtime win over Abilene Christian, blowout loss at Washington State. So that's the good news for OSU is the number of contenders is shrinking, they're still in the game of musical chairs. 

Jenni: And those are two teams the Cowboys have on their schedule.

Berry: That's right. That's exactly right. So the conference schedule maybe gets a little easier. Conference play starts this week with a couple of teams that, you know, are not picked to win it, not picked high, but be careful. And that's TCU and Central Florida. So that's what I love about the Big 12. It's so wide open. Iowa State had the best win, beating Iowa. I think Cyclones are a contender. And Kansas loses at Illinois. Kansas State has trouble at Tulane, which is no big crime. The Green Wave has a really good program. Arizona trailing at halftime to Northern Arizona. Arizona State might be the most impressive team so far, and nobody thinks they're any good at all. They were picked last. So who knows what's going to happen in the Big 12. It's going to be the funnest league in college football.

Jenni: Speaking of who knows what's gonna happen, let's talk about this Tulsa game on Saturday, Berry. OSU heads up the turnpike to play the Golden Hurricane. I like when these types of series are scheduled. I like seeing teams play other teams in their state. So I'm all for this series. What is your prediction for Saturday?

Berry: Well, I think Tulsa has got some offensive weapons. Unfortunately, they're going through what a lot of teams are going through, which is trying to makeshift their offensive line. They can't protect or run exceedingly well. That's an opportunity for the OSU defense. 

I think the Tulsa defense is going to have some trouble. I don't know if Tulsa can load the box and stop Ollie Gordon the way other teams have. We'll see. They're going to try. This is a game when Ollie could get free. If the Cowboys can't run on Tulsa, I would guess that maybe they're not going to all year and that Ollie is going to have to become a sort of a versatile, do-all-kinds-of-things tailback to get any kind of numbers or production. 

But I just think there's too many questions for Tulsa in this game. You know, 20 years ago, or longer than that, 25 years ago, this was a pretty even series. When Tulsa came to Stillwater, they usually lost. When OSU went to Tulsa, it was often a great game and sometimes the Golden Hurricane won. But OSU's won nine in a row in the series. Not since 1998 has Tulsa won it. Only a couple of the games over in Tulsa have been close. I think you covered that midnight madness game. 

Jenni: I actually did not.

Berry: Well, that night where they played till 3 am or 4 am. Total nonsense in 2011. Everybody remembers the late-night stuff. That was like 58-14 or something. I mean, Cowboys have won in some blowouts. I would expect to OSU to have sort of a commanding victory Saturday.

Jenni: Yeah, I think I'll go in the 38-13 range of things. I think it's going to be a pretty easy win. I think there'll be a lot of Cowboy fans over there. Being in Tulsa, got a chance for alums in that area to get there. So I like the Cowboys to win, but you're right. I think it's worth watching what that run game does against the Golden Hurricane. 

That's all the time we got for now, Berry, but tell people what you got coming up in the Tulsa World.

Berry: Going to write about, when it comes to the Cowboys, how mid majors sort of staged an uprising. We don't think OSU is going to lose at Tulsa, but …

Jenni: Didn't think Northern Illinois was going to Notre Dame to win.

Berry: Did not think it was going to happen. So chaos has come to college football and that has in some ways emboldened the mid-majors.

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